Cost of Implementing TC, OC, BC and GM


Hesham
 

Hi All,

Does any one have data to show the cost of implementing OC, BC, TC, and GM in switches/routers/servers ?

Thanks

Hesham


Oleg Obleukhov
 

Hi Hesham,
Do you mean like development costs from scratch? Because these are all widely available. TC is implemented on TH/TH3 ASICs, GM for server is open sourced under the the OCP (https://github.com/opencomputeproject/Time-Appliance-Project) etc.
Or am I missing something?
Thanks,
Oleg.

On 22 Jul 2021, at 03:39, Hesham <helbakoury@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

Does any one have data to show the cost of implementing OC, BC, TC, and GM in switches/routers/servers ?

Thanks

Hesham






Hesham
 

Hi Oleg

Thanks for the info.

I am not interested in development cost.

How much it costs to add TC/BC/OC to a switch/router/.. that are used for example in 5G Backhaul or Core network.

Thanks

Hesham

On 7/22/2021 2:30 AM, Oleg Obleukhov wrote:
Hi Hesham,
Do you mean like development costs from scratch? Because these are all widely available. TC is implemented on TH/TH3 ASICs, GM for server is open sourced under the the OCP (https://github.com/opencomputeproject/Time-Appliance-Project) etc.
Or am I missing something?
Thanks,
Oleg.

On 22 Jul 2021, at 03:39, Hesham <helbakoury@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

Does any one have data to show the cost of implementing OC, BC, TC, and GM in switches/routers/servers ?

Thanks

Hesham








Oleg Obleukhov
 

Hi Hesham,
OC: On the client side you need a NIC hardware timestamp support. Then you can run ptp4l which is an open source project (linuxptp).
TC: This is an ASIC capability. If you want high precision you need a hardware capability which usually means you need a better switch. Many if not most of the Broadcom and Arista switches already can do it.
BC: This can be solved either by running ptp4l to a server/switch or having FPGA (some switch manufacturers are working on it).
GM: Need Time Card (http://timingcard.com) + good NIC (with HWTS) + PTP server (ptp4u or ptp4l).

Thanks pretty much it.
Thank you,
Oleg. 

On 22 Jul 2021, at 10:50, Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:

Hi Oleg

Thanks for the info.

I am not interested in development cost.

How much it costs to add TC/BC/OC to a switch/router/.. that are used for example in 5G Backhaul or Core network.

Thanks

Hesham

On 7/22/2021 2:30 AM, Oleg Obleukhov wrote:
Hi Hesham,
Do you mean like development costs from scratch? Because these are all widely available. TC is implemented on TH/TH3 ASICs, GM for server is open sourced under the the OCP (https://github.com/opencomputeproject/Time-Appliance-Project) etc.
Or am I missing something?
Thanks,
Oleg.

On 22 Jul 2021, at 03:39, Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Does any one have data to show the cost of implementing OC, BC, TC, and GM in switches/routers/servers ?

Thanks

Hesham














Hesham
 

Thanks Oleg!

Hesham

On 7/22/2021 2:57 AM, Oleg Obleukhov wrote:
Hi Hesham,
OC: On the client side you need a NIC hardware timestamp support. Then you can run ptp4l which is an open source project (linuxptp).
TC: This is an ASIC capability. If you want high precision you need a hardware capability which usually means you need a better switch. Many if not most of the Broadcom and Arista switches already can do it.
BC: This can be solved either by running ptp4l to a server/switch or having FPGA (some switch manufacturers are working on it).
GM: Need Time Card (http://timingcard.com) + good NIC (with HWTS) + PTP server (ptp4u or ptp4l).

Thanks pretty much it.
Thank you,
Oleg. 

On 22 Jul 2021, at 10:50, Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:

Hi Oleg

Thanks for the info.

I am not interested in development cost.

How much it costs to add TC/BC/OC to a switch/router/.. that are used for example in 5G Backhaul or Core network.

Thanks

Hesham

On 7/22/2021 2:30 AM, Oleg Obleukhov wrote:
Hi Hesham,
Do you mean like development costs from scratch? Because these are all widely available. TC is implemented on TH/TH3 ASICs, GM for server is open sourced under the the OCP (https://github.com/opencomputeproject/Time-Appliance-Project) etc.
Or am I missing something?
Thanks,
Oleg.

On 22 Jul 2021, at 03:39, Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Does any one have data to show the cost of implementing OC, BC, TC, and GM in switches/routers/servers ?

Thanks

Hesham














Shamir Stein
 

To add to Oleg’s good comments, especially considering the implementation on a switch/router, some of the HW building blocks are key.

The FPGA is indeed important to allow for manipulation and processing of accurate time signals (such as 1PPS).

The switching fabric chip has also a major role here, or more precisely, its Phys/SerDes timestamp resolution and how well the recovered phase is hooked in the HW (to other related elements like counters).

Lets also not forget SyncE that may need an adequate PLL (possible in FPGA, but it is a question of performance).

 

 

Shamir

+972 52 599 3003

 

From: OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io <OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io> On Behalf Of Hesham via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2021 13:01
To: OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io
Subject: Re: [OCP-TAP] Cost of Implementing TC, OC, BC and GM

 

Thanks Oleg!

Hesham

On 7/22/2021 2:57 AM, Oleg Obleukhov wrote:

Hi Hesham,

OC: On the client side you need a NIC hardware timestamp support. Then you can run ptp4l which is an open source project (linuxptp).

TC: This is an ASIC capability. If you want high precision you need a hardware capability which usually means you need a better switch. Many if not most of the Broadcom and Arista switches already can do it.

BC: This can be solved either by running ptp4l to a server/switch or having FPGA (some switch manufacturers are working on it).

GM: Need Time Card (http://timingcard.com) + good NIC (with HWTS) + PTP server (ptp4u or ptp4l).

 

Thanks pretty much it.

Thank you,

Oleg. 



On 22 Jul 2021, at 10:50, Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:

 

Hi Oleg

Thanks for the info.

I am not interested in development cost.

How much it costs to add TC/BC/OC to a switch/router/.. that are used for example in 5G Backhaul or Core network.

Thanks

Hesham

On 7/22/2021 2:30 AM, Oleg Obleukhov wrote:

Hi Hesham,
Do you mean like development costs from scratch? Because these are all widely available. TC is implemented on TH/TH3 ASICs, GM for server is open sourced under the the OCP (https://github.com/opencomputeproject/Time-Appliance-Project) etc.
Or am I missing something?
Thanks,
Oleg.


On 22 Jul 2021, at 03:39, Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Does any one have data to show the cost of implementing OC, BC, TC, and GM in switches/routers/servers ?

Thanks

Hesham











 


Daniel Brown (daniebro)
 

Hi,

 

Here at Cisco we have released the lowest latency L3 switch that supports both PTP Grandmaster and Boundary Clock functionality with a <100ps timestamp resolution based upon FPGA. Featuring GPS in and PPS in/out ports and an onboard OCXO oscillator providing stability of 0.2 parts per billion.

 

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-3550-series/datasheet-c78-744762.html

 

We are also integrating white rabbit into our solution.

 

Thanks

Daniel

 

signature_540967201

Daniel Brown

TECHNICAL SOLUTIONS ARCHITECT 

ULTRA LOW LATENCY 

daniebro@...   

Mobile: +44 785 8209281

Cisco International Limited

United Kingdom

This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message.

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From: OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io <OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io> on behalf of Shamir Stein <shamir@...>
Date: Thursday, 22 July 2021 at 11:56
To: OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io <OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [OCP-TAP] Cost of Implementing TC, OC, BC and GM

To add to Oleg’s good comments, especially considering the implementation on a switch/router, some of the HW building blocks are key.

The FPGA is indeed important to allow for manipulation and processing of accurate time signals (such as 1PPS).

The switching fabric chip has also a major role here, or more precisely, its Phys/SerDes timestamp resolution and how well the recovered phase is hooked in the HW (to other related elements like counters).

Lets also not forget SyncE that may need an adequate PLL (possible in FPGA, but it is a question of performance).

 

 

Shamir

+972 52 599 3003

 

From: OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io <OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io> On Behalf Of Hesham via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2021 13:01
To: OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io
Subject: Re: [OCP-TAP] Cost of Implementing TC, OC, BC and GM

 

Thanks Oleg!

Hesham

On 7/22/2021 2:57 AM, Oleg Obleukhov wrote:

Hi Hesham,

OC: On the client side you need a NIC hardware timestamp support. Then you can run ptp4l which is an open source project (linuxptp).

TC: This is an ASIC capability. If you want high precision you need a hardware capability which usually means you need a better switch. Many if not most of the Broadcom and Arista switches already can do it.

BC: This can be solved either by running ptp4l to a server/switch or having FPGA (some switch manufacturers are working on it).

GM: Need Time Card (http://timingcard.com) + good NIC (with HWTS) + PTP server (ptp4u or ptp4l).

 

Thanks pretty much it.

Thank you,

Oleg. 




On 22 Jul 2021, at 10:50, Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:

 

Hi Oleg

Thanks for the info.

I am not interested in development cost.

How much it costs to add TC/BC/OC to a switch/router/.. that are used for example in 5G Backhaul or Core network.

Thanks

Hesham

On 7/22/2021 2:30 AM, Oleg Obleukhov wrote:


Hi Hesham,
Do you mean like development costs from scratch? Because these are all widely available. TC is implemented on TH/TH3 ASICs, GM for server is open sourced under the the OCP (https://github.com/opencomputeproject/Time-Appliance-Project) etc.
Or am I missing something?
Thanks,
Oleg.



On 22 Jul 2021, at 03:39, Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Does any one have data to show the cost of implementing OC, BC, TC, and GM in switches/routers/servers ?

Thanks

Hesham














 


Shamir Stein
 

Hi Daniel

 

That’s a great example of the use of the FPGA for both the fabric and timestamping.

With these kind of numbers, it seems you should be well within the Class D range (or even WR) for BC and TC.

 

In our switches, we normally combine ASICs and FPGAs looking to achieve an optimal combination of performance, power consumption and cost (for the applications we’re addressing anyway).

 

 

Shamir

+972 52 599 3003

 

From: OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io <OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io> On Behalf Of Daniel Brown (daniebro) via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2021 14:12
To: OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io
Cc: James Beeken (jhbeeken) <jhbeeken@...>; Peter TeStrake -X (ptestrak - MBO PARTNERS LIMITED at Cisco) <ptestrak@...>
Subject: Re: [OCP-TAP] Cost of Implementing TC, OC, BC and GM

 

Hi,

 

Here at Cisco we have released the lowest latency L3 switch that supports both PTP Grandmaster and Boundary Clock functionality with a <100ps timestamp resolution based upon FPGA. Featuring GPS in and PPS in/out ports and an onboard OCXO oscillator providing stability of 0.2 parts per billion.

 

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/nexus-3550-series/datasheet-c78-744762.html

 

We are also integrating white rabbit into our solution.

 

Thanks

Daniel

 

signature_540967201

Daniel Brown

TECHNICAL SOLUTIONS ARCHITECT 

ULTRA LOW LATENCY 

daniebro@...   

Mobile: +44 785 8209281

Cisco International Limited

United Kingdom

This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message.

Update Profile - Unsubscribe - Privacy

Please click here for Company Registration

 

 

From: OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io <OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io> on behalf of Shamir Stein <shamir@...>
Date: Thursday, 22 July 2021 at 11:56
To: OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io <OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [OCP-TAP] Cost of Implementing TC, OC, BC and GM

To add to Oleg’s good comments, especially considering the implementation on a switch/router, some of the HW building blocks are key.

The FPGA is indeed important to allow for manipulation and processing of accurate time signals (such as 1PPS).

The switching fabric chip has also a major role here, or more precisely, its Phys/SerDes timestamp resolution and how well the recovered phase is hooked in the HW (to other related elements like counters).

Lets also not forget SyncE that may need an adequate PLL (possible in FPGA, but it is a question of performance).

 

 

Shamir

+972 52 599 3003

 

From: OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io <OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io> On Behalf Of Hesham via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2021 13:01
To: OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io
Subject: Re: [OCP-TAP] Cost of Implementing TC, OC, BC and GM

 

Thanks Oleg!

Hesham

On 7/22/2021 2:57 AM, Oleg Obleukhov wrote:

Hi Hesham,

OC: On the client side you need a NIC hardware timestamp support. Then you can run ptp4l which is an open source project (linuxptp).

TC: This is an ASIC capability. If you want high precision you need a hardware capability which usually means you need a better switch. Many if not most of the Broadcom and Arista switches already can do it.

BC: This can be solved either by running ptp4l to a server/switch or having FPGA (some switch manufacturers are working on it).

GM: Need Time Card (http://timingcard.com) + good NIC (with HWTS) + PTP server (ptp4u or ptp4l).

 

Thanks pretty much it.

Thank you,

Oleg. 



On 22 Jul 2021, at 10:50, Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:

 

Hi Oleg

Thanks for the info.

I am not interested in development cost.

How much it costs to add TC/BC/OC to a switch/router/.. that are used for example in 5G Backhaul or Core network.

Thanks

Hesham

On 7/22/2021 2:30 AM, Oleg Obleukhov wrote:

Hi Hesham,
Do you mean like development costs from scratch? Because these are all widely available. TC is implemented on TH/TH3 ASICs, GM for server is open sourced under the the OCP (https://github.com/opencomputeproject/Time-Appliance-Project) etc.
Or am I missing something?
Thanks,
Oleg.


On 22 Jul 2021, at 03:39, Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Does any one have data to show the cost of implementing OC, BC, TC, and GM in switches/routers/servers ?

Thanks

Hesham











 


Amit Verma
 

Hi Hesham,
I am with Juniper Networks, and have worked on OC/BC, TC, and GM implementations.

The basic building blocks of a timing solution on hardware side is a timestamping unit, which could be on the forwarding chip in use, or an external PHY like (https://www.broadcom.com/products/ethernet-connectivity/phy-and-poe/optical/bcm81384), a DPLL and sw solution like from Microsemi (https://www.microsemi.com/product-directory/network-synchronization/882-ieee-1588), a good quality oscillator (typically an OCXO), and associated circuitry.

If you're using merchant silicon, TC capability is many times built into the ASIC, and can be enabled by the appropriate SDK. It doesn't need external hardware (PLLs, Jitter attenuators), so it's mostly a s/w development effort.
The performance you can expect could be in the range of class-B Time error, under 50ns cTE and 100ns maxTE.

For BC, if you don't want additional h/w, you can work with the ASIC vendor and use their protocol stack and servo. You'll probably need an external DPLL and maybe some Jitter attenuators. This would have licensing costs that vary from vendor to vendor.

For GM, which has been my primary focus, there is a lot of ground to cover, including RF side; You should be able to use a GNSS vendor part and integrate that in a switch. Or use a plug in smart SFP with GPS GM capability.

I can't comment on pricing/cost of inclusion as that depends much on the commodity management team.

- amit

On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 8:09 AM Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:
Hi All,

Does any one have data to show the cost of implementing OC, BC, TC, and
GM in switches/routers/servers ?

Thanks

Hesham







Heiko Gerstung
 

Hi Hesham,

 

just a small addition: COTS switches from Arista, Cisco and the like in most cases can be set up as a BC, too.

 

Regards,

   Heiko

 

 


-- 

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Managing Director 

 

MEINBERG® Funkuhren GmbH & Co. KG 

Lange Wand 9 

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Phone: +49 (0)5281 9309-404 

Fax: +49 (0)5281 9309-9404 

 

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Email: 

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Web: 

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English https://www.meinbergglobal.com

 

Do not miss our Time Synchronization Blog: 

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Connect via LinkedIn: 

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Von: <OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io> im Auftrag von Oleg Obleukhov <leoleovich@...>
Antworten an: <OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io>
Datum: Donnerstag, 22. Juli 2021 um 11:57
An: "OCP-TAP@ocp-all.groups.io" <OCP-TAP@OCP-All.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [OCP-TAP] Cost of Implementing TC, OC, BC and GM

 

Hi Hesham,

OC: On the client side you need a NIC hardware timestamp support. Then you can run ptp4l which is an open source project (linuxptp).

TC: This is an ASIC capability. If you want high precision you need a hardware capability which usually means you need a better switch. Many if not most of the Broadcom and Arista switches already can do it.

BC: This can be solved either by running ptp4l to a server/switch or having FPGA (some switch manufacturers are working on it).

GM: Need Time Card (http://timingcard.com) + good NIC (with HWTS) + PTP server (ptp4u or ptp4l).

 

Thanks pretty much it.

Thank you,

Oleg. 



On 22 Jul 2021, at 10:50, Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:

 

Hi Oleg

Thanks for the info.

I am not interested in development cost.

How much it costs to add TC/BC/OC to a switch/router/.. that are used for example in 5G Backhaul or Core network.

Thanks

Hesham

On 7/22/2021 2:30 AM, Oleg Obleukhov wrote:

Hi Hesham,
Do you mean like development costs from scratch? Because these are all widely available. TC is implemented on TH/TH3 ASICs, GM for server is open sourced under the the OCP (https://github.com/opencomputeproject/Time-Appliance-Project) etc.
Or am I missing something?
Thanks,
Oleg.


On 22 Jul 2021, at 03:39, Hesham <helbakoury@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Does any one have data to show the cost of implementing OC, BC, TC, and GM in switches/routers/servers ?

Thanks

Hesham